#1) Topic I’m wrestling with God over: Homosexuality
There are a number of areas that I haven’t quite worked out yet in terms of my faith. The issue of homosexuality is one of them. I want for homosexuality to be acceptable to God. I’ve had a number of dear friends who are gay. I believe them to be good people, well-intentioned. Some of them were far from God. Most of the reason they were far from God, I think, is because the church was unloving to them.
If it turns out that God says that homosexuality is wrong, then of course we don’t have the luxury of running from this. It would be unloving to sugar coat this reality. But this does not excuse hate-filled and even Satanic actions done in the name of Christ.
And does God say it’s wrong? That’s the whole sticking point, I suppose.
If we cite Old Testament verses, then we’d better be prepared to do a whole variety of terrible things that most of us wouldn’t want to do. We all know those verses, there’s no point in rehashing them here.
This leaves us with the New Testament Verses. Jesus doesn’t say anything about homosexuality, but Paul seems to. This is a meaningful distinction for some people. They seem to imply that the Gospels have a greater importance than the Epistles. But I’m not sure it makes sense to lower the importance of something in the bible merely because Jesus didn’t say it. If God is behind the whole bible, then he’s behind the whole bible. If he’s not, then he’s not. If the bible is merely a human-created attempt at wisdom then I’m going to give up on calling myself a Christian and go join a Unitarian Chuch. At least they’re honest and upfront about the status of various religious sciptures.
Some people say that the word we render as “homosexual” is more properly rendered “temple prostitute”; they describe that the concept doesn’t really translate… That the verses that are commonly understood as prohibitting homosexuality are really condemnations of rape, polyagmy, etc. Frankly, I’ve gotten lost in all the scholarly debate on this issue. It appears from the outside that both groups started with the assumptions they ended up with; both groups I think are sincere and arguing for things they generally believe. Niether side can show me evidence that seems worthy of how secure they seem in their interpretations.
I’m familiar with the research that says homsexuality occurs in animal populations. I’ve seen the studies where it’s been caused in rats. I know about the autopsies they’ve done in gay men and found more densely packed cells in the hypothalmus.
I know that this information can be spun in either direction: as proof that homosexuality is naturally occuring or as suggestive that it’s some sort-of defect. I’ve seen the claims that Christian therapists can “cure” homosexuality and the counter-claims that theses “cures” are hardly ever long-term.
What I’m left with is the following beliefs… They are tenative and wishy-washy. But they are the best I can do, based on where I’m at now. I’m open to correction from either side of the debate, so somebody, please, fill me in:
#1) There is far more black-and-white, uncontroversial evidence that Jesus is not very happy with the idea of divorce. I don’t say this because I think we should be hard on divorcees… I say it because I think we ought to use this as a sort of litmus test. Do we bar divorced people from our churches? Do we show up at divorce courts with hate mongering signs? Do we tell divorced people that God hates their divorce even if he does love them? If we don’t do any of the above to divorced people it seems ridiculous to treat gay people in that way.
#2) God is infinitely loving and fair. He’s going to judge people based on infinitely loving and fair criteria.
#3) Whatever standards I judge people by will be applied to me.
These 3 parameters leave me with many more questions than answers.
November 23, 2007 at 9:12 pm
I appreciate your struggle. I, too, have homosexual friends I greatly respect. My uncle, who did a better job of raising me than my parents did, is gay. Yet, I find the Bible to be clear that sex with someone of the same gender is wrong. Still, homosexuals are no more sinners than I am. I believe we are called to love them and do our best together, with the grace of God, to steer clear of our sin in whatever form it takes.
November 24, 2007 at 12:52 am
You’re point on divorce is very well taken. It does seem very bizarre that anyone who claims that the Bible is fundamental would be far more ambitious in their protest of homosexuality than they are of divorce. Heck, divorce is far far more common these days than homosexuality: and it very clearly does lots of harm to families, whereas its not clear that being gay itself does harm to anyone.
November 24, 2007 at 1:39 am
excellent post… very thought provoking… i wonder at the same things as well… who decided that homosexuality is THE sin of all sins? if i’m not mistaken, the only unpardonable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit… all sins are forgivable if one repents… but therein lies the key… repentance… and how does one convince a person with gay pride that he/she is in need of repentance? and why do we believe what men have to say is the truth of homosexuality when the Lord says that His word is truth and His ways are not the same as our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts? and I agree with you that the whole Bible is true, not just the red letter words… and if the gay person is guilty of his/her sin then the Christian who bashes the gay person is equally guilty of his/her sin… we are all guilty and in need of a Savior… Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!!!
November 24, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Thanks everybody. It’s nice to hear other’s attempts at working things out.
Micey points to an issue I didn’t even really address: “How does one convince a person with gay pride that he/she is in need of repetance?”
As I considered this issue it occured to me that it’s even harder than this… It’s not only gay pride but actual sexual attraction. I’m attracted to women. (Specifically my wife) You couldn’t talk me out of being attracted to women. It wouldn’t work. And if you told me that God doesn’t approve of my attraction to women, I’d have serious doubts about a God that would first give me this attraction and then tell me to be ashamed of it… Is it reasonable to expect the reaction from a gay man or women to be any different?
I’m not trying to be provocative here, I’m just wrestling with the question.
November 24, 2007 at 1:47 pm
i think it is reasonable for a gay person to react that way… they do react that way… however, where in the time line of their lives did they learn to be attracted to the same sex? i personally think it happens from a very very young age, an age they can’t remember, therefore making it extremely hard to convince a person to change their whole sexual preference… i also think because God says it is wrong to have sex outside of marriage, it is, maybe one of the top reasons, if not the main reason, gay people are fighting for the right to be married… they are trying to fit in to what God says is right, rationalizing their position… it is all very complicated, which is why i think you must show a gay person’s need for Christ by showing them their OTHER sin… for example, we are all liars and thieves and murderers and cheaters, and covetors at heart, aside from what are sexual preference may be… if a person can come to repentance for SIN, then salvation can occur and the work of sanctification can begin… i know a bunch of gay people who have been saved and they have become celibate and devoted to the Lord and they are my friends and are quite happy and peaceful… it is entirely possible to be sanctified in Christ…
November 24, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Thanks for your thoughts.
What you say makes sense.
November 24, 2007 at 6:58 pm
Taking the divorce comparison further: if repentance is so necessary, wouldn’t divorcees have to be repentant of their divorce, and get back together with their former spouse? And yet most divorcees are just as unrepentant as gay people, no?
November 25, 2007 at 1:47 am
That’s a really interesting point… On the one hand, divorce is a one-time act. But the decision to stay divorced is a long time action.
Ultimately, if we take Jesus at his word, every time we think hateful thoughts we murder; every time we think lustful thoughts we committ adultery.
I’m a pretty mellow guy. Yet I can’t think of the last day I’ve gone without thinking a hateful thought at least once…
I thinking I’m moving in the direction of being increasingly sinless. I see Jesus’ work in me. But I have a long road ahead of me… And I don’t think I’m particularly alone in this.
I wonder if homosexuality is such an easy target because it’s something that most of us don’t identify as but it’s something that we are afraid of, and it’s close enough to us that we can always locate a target.
November 25, 2007 at 3:40 am
yep… and i think as a whole, we are a very judgmental lot of people, i’m talking about the condemnation… instead of looking in the mirror and seeing what our sin is, it is much easier to point to another and point at his/her sin… the old people who live in glass houses metaphor comes to mind… we completely forget or willfully ignore what the Lord says to the pharisees about the woman who committed adultery…
John 8
1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11″No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
February 22, 2008 at 9:30 pm
This is a very interesting discussion, and I hope more people stumble upon it as I am only now finding it and its been since last november anyone has posted. I am a believer in Jesus, and I am gay. I am very interested in what everyone has had to say because I dont know what to make of my situation. I was raised to shun SSAs(same-sex attractions) and that God did not approve of them. My mother, bless her soul, thinks that its a choice that I have made, that I am desperatley wanting for God to approve of my being gay. I cannot recall a time where I learned to be attracted to other guys, as was mentioned before, and if such a time exsists, I suppose I would need therapy to uncover it. There is a lot of information that I have been reading on the subject and to be perfectly honest, I am still not sure how I feel about it. It hurts me that I can open declare my homosexuality on a blog like this easier than I can tell my family for fear of exile. My mom is the only one in my family who knows, but she suggests I dont tell anyone else, “They just wont understand.” A lot of what I read online talks about the original greek and hebrew being either mis-translated or taken out of context. I am very level headed about this. There is a part of me that wants to dismiss such claims as justifications for sin. On the other hand I want to know the truth, for that is what will set us free. Wouldn’t it be so easy if God would just speak to us as in the old testament? Send us a messenger so we dont have to guess? I am not currently involved with anyone (fale or female.) I recently broke up with a very wonderful woman, because I knew I couldn’t devote myself to her 100%, mind, body and soul. I had to tell her the truth, and she was very understanding. I guess I didnt much help with your question, but I thought I’d give it a shot. God Bless you all, in Jesus.
February 23, 2008 at 12:34 am
Wow. It’s one thing for me to wrestle with this issue as an abstraction. It exists on a whole other level for you. Your willingness to share your experiences is really valuable. Thanks.